Saturday, October 17, 2009

FLOSS Weekly interviews Roy Schestowitz: The Transcript

Summary: aaahhhh... ummmm... eeeeehhh... ummmm.... uh.... aaaahhh... sniff

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This is an unofficial, fragmented, selectively quoted and smarmy transcript of Jono Bacon and Leo Laporte's FLOSS Weekly interview with Roy Schestowitz, proprietor of BoycottNovell. With some fact checking thrown in.

Note that the times below are for the MP3-format podcast, not the video.

And off we go ¶

03:54  Leo Laporte: "[Schestowitz] is not on video because he doesn't have a webcam... have we known we would have sent him a camera but he probably would have rejected it because it probably came from some closed source thing"
As this was recorded after the interview, Schestowitz didn't hear it in real time... but it's funny because it's true.
04:10  LL: "... you don't sound very British .. are you an expat?" Roy Schestowitz: (some unintelligible thing about education) "it's a personal story" LL: "My deepest apologies" (laughs)
Schestowitz is actually German [1]. Not sure what the big secret is supposed to be.
09:20  RS: "...people are tied to these illusions... in the case of Novell they want to say /we're an exciting company, good results/, ummm they want people to recite this"
I have a juicy post lined up about the illusions that Schestowitz ties to Novell.
09:59  Jono Bacon: "...[negativity about BN] do you think it's a personal bias/an axe to grind?" RS: "I think there is the possibility of misinterpretation ... employees of certain companies who try to poison against the site ... it's just me and myself [sic]"
Another (large) post coming up about how this negativity is freely mapped to "certain companies". I also have to chuckle at the "me and myself" part. Schestowitz fancies himself the leader of a community because there are five people logged into his IRC channel and uses the Royal We to refer to himself, but when the going gets tough he starts channeling De La Soul
10:46  "...it's easier to attack the person"
Miguel de Icaza, Nat Friedman, Bruce Byfield, Matt Asay [2], Ted Haeger, Jeff Waugh (and Waugh's wife), Thom Holwerda, Shane O'Neill, Tim O'Reilly, Jo Shields [3], Bryan Lunduke (from the Linux Action Show) [4], Greg Kroah-Hartman, Matt Zimmerman, Window Snyder, Albert Zonneveld, a random Wikipedia user... they all should have called in and said hi.
11:07  JB: "...do people have a grudge against you or the project?" RS follows with a completely unhinged monologue that answered nothing.
17:40  JB questions RS about Shane Coyle leaving BoycottNovell, and RS goes into the old story about a "misunderstanding"
Coyle didn't leave because of a misunderstanding, he left because of things like these, these and these and these. To suggest otherwise is nothing more than clever spin.
26:27  RS says Novell has 4,000 employees but only a few hundred work on Linux, JB says "surely you have the same objection to IBM" RS answers with "I don't attack developers", JB brings up the attacks on de Icaza and his GIMPE'd image holding a windows box (among many), RS starts to mumble a bit more.
28:53  JB argues that Novell is probably not as evil as RS paints them, they hire FOSS developers, they invest real money producing real software, great software is being produced with Mono, etc. RS: "I think you're steering towards the issues that are more convenient for you to talk about"
Getting a bit uppity here now, because he's getting cornered.
30:55  JB: "...give me a specific example of how Microsoft is advancing their interests" RS: "their patches are beneficial to Windows" (duh) JB: "does it matter?"
Here Schestowitz actually says "GNU/Linux", and it sounds extremely weird.
35:07  RS says "SuSE", in case anyone wondered if he's German or not.
36:10  JB: "...seven thousand tweets in three months" RS: "...misconception that people think I focus on the negative"
Schestowitz brings up that claim (which he uses constantly) about his daily grind being "80% GNU/Linux advocacy". I suspect he's conveniently measuring volume of linkage he puts out vs. the time investment.
36:43  JB: "...are you spammers?"
Ouchy
38:00  JB: "... a guy with 16 accounts that used to troll Slashdot and hangs out on your IRC channel"
The valued partnership that keeps on giving. I LOL'ed.
38:41  RS: "...it's difficult to denounce people who are trying to help" re: spamming on his behalf.
Yeah, "it's difficult to attack someone who puts you alongside RMS" [5]
39:00  RS: "...I don't choose my friends, I don't actually invite people..."
Nope, never happened
39:38  JB: "can you see that many people are doing this (spamming BoycottNovell content), do you see how people might draw a link to you?"
Naaah, it's all just a coincidence.
40:20  RS: "[people are] posting a link to [his blog], they must [not] be associated with the website"
Except that it's not just one link, it's thousands and thousands.
42:19  JB: "do you feel you have a responsibility to tell these spammers to stop?"
Schestowitz mentions he denounced Fink, which would be all well and good except for the "I like what you did" part.
48:50  After discussing spam, RS petulantly asks what JB thinks he should do about it, JB says maybe he should write a post specifically saying he has nothing to do with them.
Yeah, I can see that happening.
50:13  JB makes the point that there's an overbearing sense of negativity towards RS out there, so why do it? "...surely your life is unpleasant?" RS: "That's more of a convenient delusion you're trying to pass here"
Oh my.
50:31  "... the attacks come from Microsoft"
I wish Jono had had more time and stopped here to ask "Oh really? Can you provide factual proof of that?" That would have been an awesome three hours.
52:20  re: why he does what he does "[I was picking flowers in a field one day] and I started being attacked so I decided to explore these things ... looking into the PR agencies that are associated with Microsoft ... certain connections in government ... companies are not happy because they are criticized"
As time goes by I think Schestowitz is starting to sound more and more like a 9/11 truther.
54:28  JB says OK, "..[but] a lot of the people who criticize you are part of the FOSS community"
Obviously fully cornered now, RS then goes into a complete non-answer for three minutes, and discusses how he changed the front page of his website to avoid giving the "wrong impression" or something like that.
55:34  "...people who are associated with certain companies who are seeding information" ... "technical evangelists" ... "discrediting the website as a source of information" ... "I'm fine with that because i understand why it happens"
Translation: The abuse I get is only proof that I'm right. And it's all Microsoft's fault.
56:30  JB: "do you not think that BoycottNovell is damaging to FOSS, based on all this negative feedback?" Another three minutes of mumbling non-answers.
58:18  JB again: "...you haven't answered my question" RS: "[damaging to] free software... no, it might be damaging to other movements"
Yes, the Open Source movement. [6]
59:28  RS: "...the reason you approached me for this was because you disagree ... it's not as though you're presenting a very objective look [sic] here"
Oh dear god.
60:10  JB: "yes, I disagree [with BoycottNovell], I think it's damaging, but that doesn't mean I can't give you a platform, because you deserve to have that platform to put your message across"
60:35  RS: "...the questions the way they were posed tell one side of the story ... as long as the conversation is being guided by one side"
The meaning of the word "conversation" is apparently lost on our hero.
61:53  LL: "This is your chance to say whatever you want to say..." RS: "I don't have anything prepared" LL: "...OK, I just want to make sure that you feel that you've been heard"
He didn't have anything prepared, for great justice.

Ambush at high noon ¶

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Iz Annoyed

Predictably enough, once in the familiar warm safety of his IRC channel and surrounded by his psychofans sycophants friends, Schestowitz declares the whole experience overrated and a disaster. It's always someone else's fault, he didn't prepare (even though he had almost two weeks advance notice). His institutional negativity is a false allegation, it's all the evil doings of Microsoft and Novell employees, who "ridicule" him. He starts pulling out his self-referential non sequiturs which will surely help everyone understand him better, if only we could just take the time to read them.

We have. They don't.

Schestowitz then gets slightly hysterical (in that same log) and plows into Jono Bacon, claiming he was "incited" with "libel from detractors" and so on. It's the same old story.

Some people (e.g., his friends) were quick to offer up the usual excuses about how Schestowitz should be cut some slack because he has made enemies detractors in USENET, a phenomenon he tends to project back to Microsoft without offering any factual proof. I have a hard time believing that Schestowitz was naive enough to think that he was being invited to FLOSS Weekly because of his vast and tangible contributions to free software, the bulk of which I lack the time and space to properly address here. I think he expected to be treated like the celebrity he thinks he is, with the proper deference afforded to him by his cadre. Unfortunately reality is a bit different from the bubble he lives in. Even then, apparently he knew what he was there for:

Hey guys ... As expected, jono aligned accusations against me

He knows it's all a conspiracy:

Where the boradcaster and hosts are all aligned against the guest. I know Leo is a fan of Miguel; he said so.

This debacle is just coincidence, really:

By making the guest uncomfortable they make it harder for him/her to speak clearly and make coherent arguments ... shows I get invited to are always like that

I wonder why they're always like that. Like Jono said during the interview, are you sure you're right and the people who criticize you are wrong? And also, just how many "shows" has he done? I count exactly two (see below).

What possible preconception could Jono Bacon have had about the BoycottBoys, after all? On this log Jono has a back and forth with Schestowitz' best friend, where he's actually accused of working for Novell (not making this up here). Here's a taste of what goes on in there:

<twitter>the "rights holder" in mono [Microsoft] is not interested in dealing, and you can see the pile of corpses from those who tried before
<jono>twitter, pile of corpses? dude, this is not From Dusk Till Dawn

Then twitter subsequently posts a comment here claiming he was "attacked". Is it any wonder that Bruce Byfield called it a den of paranoia?

Finally, Schestowitz posts a copy of the video, with the expected editorial cleverness:

That's me interrogated by Jono Bacon ... I was very uncomfortable on this show, and it probably shows. I knew it would be rather hostile.

If he knew that it would be a "hostile interrogation", why in the world would he even agree to it at all?

One last note here. Most people who heard the interview will probably wonder why Schestowitz sounded so weird. It's not the accent but rather that mumbling style of his. He heads this off at the pass by saying he sounded terrible, that he is "a lot more coherent in person". Really? This is also a coincidence then?  §

 

Those who oppose us are usually the very same people whose interests they know are harmful to the advancement of Freedom

Revisions ¶

  • [2009-10-18] Corrected the first item in the transcript and added a mention about the postscript, per comments (thanks!). Minor grammar fixes.
  • [2009-10-25] Reworded a paragraph, per a BoycottBoy below. His constant flattering attention is always welcome, even if it makes him throw up a little in his mouth.

Notes ¶

  1. ^ http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/irc-log-04082009.html#tAug%2004%2020:44:14
  2. ^ "The Asay idiot is again attacking Linux", "Novell stooge", "useful idiot", "Apple tool". Just a sampling. I can keep this up all night, really.
  3. ^ Another tiny but representative sample.
  4. ^ See this, this and this jewel: "Lund is a Microsoft shill"
  5. ^ http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com/2009/06/when-zeal-becomes-zealotry-tawdry-tale.html?showComment=1245106060718#c1920265205071523506
  6. ^ One of Schestowitz' goals is to erradicate the impurity that is "open source" (as opposed to Free Software). See some of the quotes here. One of his favorite targets is Linus Torvalds.

18 comments:

Elland Road said...

This is the best thing I've ever read on a Saturday. Love the crybaby pic.

Elland Road said...

From http://boycottnovell.com/2009/10/16/boycott-novell-on-twit/

"Summary: That’s me interrogated by Jono Bacon"

and

"I was very uncomfortable on this show, and it probably shows. I knew it would be rather hostile."

So it wasn't an interview, it was a "hostile interrogation". What a crock.

Verofakto said...

Damn, I forgot to put that in as well. (runs off to edit)

tzs said...

Roy would not have heard Leo's joke at 3:54. They record the interview first, and then after the interviewee has left, they record the host's pre and post interview remarks.

Verofakto said...

@tzs - I had no idea that was the case. Weird. Anyway, thank you for the clarification. I'll remove that since there's obviously no point in including it.

openbytes said...

Liar. I never claimed Roy was ambushed. If you read my article I actually put Jono and Roy in a balanced light If you care to read the article I actually said:

"I think Jono handled the interview well. Its would be hard for all the issues which Boycott Novell covers to be catered for in the hour or so slot that was dedicated to it."

At least if you are going to try and tell lies about me, don't link my article and disprove your own claims.

I was of two minds to respond to this "blog" since its obviously a 1bit blog with the intention of dishonest representation, but I wondered if you would consider taking the opportunity to put these views on my site? You'd certainly get more readers and you could get your "opinions" out to a larger audience.

If you are interested to continue this debate email me anytime on:
bytes4free@googlemail.com I'll make a post out of your views and if you want to allege anything about me I can answer that too.

Oh and before I forget, nice touch with the latin phrase in your blog title.....they say imitation is the best compliment one can receive.
Thanks very much!

Regards
Goblin.

Elland Road said...

Let me try to post a comment one more time.

You only complain about this blog because it exposes your royfriend as the delusional hypocritical no-talent fourth-rate stallman-wannabe hatemonger crybaby liar that he is.

openbytes said...

Eh? No I dont. I complain about this blog because you tell lies about what I wrote (and Ive linked what I put) I have no interest in what your 15 twitter followers say about Roy since its obvious that you don't have a readerbase. I only complained because you chose to tell lies about me, if you hadn't I wouldnt have even bothered posting. (thats why I said email me, I don't think there are more than a handful of readers who look at this "blog" of yours.

What you post about Roy is your business, since he is quite capable of defending himself.

and for your (badly kept) records, theres little I agree with Stallman on.

Regards
Goblin.

Elland Road said...

Typical BoycottBoy. You may read, but you don't comprehend. THIS IS NOT MY BLOG. You're confusing me with Verofakto. Therefore, I'm just going to ignore your first paragraph.

"What you post about Roy is your business, since he is quite capable of defending himself."

The above line made me laugh. Since when is Roy capable of defending himself? Say someone comes into the BN IRC channel and asks questions he doesn't like, doesn't agree with him, or basically calls him out on his BS lies then what does Roy do? Does he defend himself by confronting that person in a calm and adult manner? No. That person is labeled a "shill" and gets kicked out, then he claims the person is trying to disrupt the channel.

Back when non-BoycottBoys used to comment on BN, saying things he didn't like, Roy would put words in red letters under their comments, calling them shills, trolls etc. Is that defending himself? No.

Now, with the site registration, when someone doesn't agree with him or tries to get him to answer some questions, he'll just delete their account. That's not "defending himself" either.

If you have any examples of what you consider Roy "defending himself", please post the links.

"and for your (badly kept) records, theres little I agree with stallman on."
I don't know who you're talking to here, Verofakto or me. I never said you agree with everything that stallman says or does. The only mention of stallman is in my previous comment.

openbytes said...

"Typical BoycottBoy. You may read, but you don't comprehend. THIS IS NOT MY BLOG. You're confusing me with Verofakto. Therefore, I'm just going to ignore your first paragraph."

You was meant as collectively. Ive seen the associated Twitter accounts to this "blog" and if its not a nymshifting exercise then its a very sad indictment of how unpopular you all are.

Putting that aside and moving on though.
You need to follow your own advice and read+comprehend. I already said I am not here to defend Roy or challenge what you say about him. I will skip your next paragraph. This blog seems to mention Roy on most of its posts, if I had wanted to "defend my friend" as the creator suggests then I would have done so before now.

Quote "I don't know who you're talking to here, Verofakto or me. I never said you agree with everything that stallman says or does. The only mention of stallman is in my previous comment."

Ive got no way to prove if you are both the same person and to be fair it matters not.

I'll leave you all to it now. Ive corrected the blog (and taken a screen dump) and now that Ive shown the blogger up for a liar thats all I was interested in.

If you are claiming not to be simply another nym of the creator of this blog then maybe you will pass on to them that when/if this "blog" gets a readerbase get in touch with me. Maybe we can have cross blog debate?

In the meantime I'll leave you to it. Enjoy.
(by the way if you need help on what comes next, this is the part where you post a series of comments in an attempt to lure me back)

Maybe you could get the blog creator to make another dishonest post about me so that I can return and disprove it?

Regards
Goblin.

Elland Road said...

"You was meant as collectively. Ive seen the associated Twitter accounts to this "blog" and if its not a nymshifting exercise then its a very sad indictment of how unpopular you all are."

Yeah, that doesn't fly. You're just trying to cover your screw-up about confusing me and Verofakto. Just like roy, you resort to attacking the person. You could have just said something like "Sorry about that".

You know what I wrote about roy "defending himself" is true, so you ignore it. The proof is on BN.

If you can insinuate that I am just an alias of Verofakto, then I can insinuate that you're just a alias of homer, or better yet, astralknight.

If you just email Verofakto and ask him to make a correction, he'd probably do it, and it wouldn't be one of those BS corrections roy does where he just puts lines through the words.

Verofakto said...

Hello _Goblin,

It turns out I owe you an apology, and some thanks. At the time I was putting this together I was looking at a bunch of sources and it turns out (you're going to love this, btw) it was actually someone in COLA that said this. Funny that! So I reworded that paragraph, since you obviously never used the word "ambushed". Again, my apologies.

obviously a 1bit blog with the intention of dishonest representation

I'm sure that once I've corrected my mistake (and thanked you for bringing it to my attention) you won't follow BoycottBoy's behavioral pattern and "pick bits to daemonise" or whatever he calls that. Feel free to comment on anything else here, feedback is always actually welcome.

I wondered if you would consider taking the opportunity to put these views on my site?

So you can write another three or four posts for little 'ole me? I'll save you the trouble. You seem preoccupied enough with policing views about Dear Leader around teh intertubes.

They say imitation is the best compliment one can receive.

A latin phrase on a blog, how unique is that, eh? But whatever makes you feel good. We are here to please.

By the way, I actually turned off trackbacks and it's obvious one was not generated to your blog... so how do you find these posts?

Elland Road said...

My secret contact says that goblin is astralknight, possibly even homer too.

openbytes said...

Thank you for the apology, it was appreciated although strange that you go on to say:

"you seem preoccupied enough with policing views about Dear Leader around teh intertubes"

yet you seem to say sorry for suggesting I defended him. As people would have seen (and why you had to say sorry), it was a balanced article and certainly didn't draw any adverse inference to his views (Jono's that is)

On respect of Mr Road, what can I say? Impossible to prove and impossible for me to defend. All I can say is that in respect of me being Homer, thanks for the compliment and in respect of AstralKnight, if memory serves (I havent seen him for a while) then all he did was to RT and post the articles of others....Maybe I'm Steve Jobs too? Or what about Rick Astley?

Back to more serious points, there is a relationship between this "blog" and the Lin$ux community (remember them? the ones who a Microsoft employee claimed represented the Linux community and then issued a full retraction when I challenged him and showed him what those children were up to?)

As I repeatedly say on my blog (and you obviously read it) I stand by everything I say. You say "we are hear to please" who may I ask? Its certainly not a readerbase. Its certainly not the 8 users you have in the chat room..(and don't be too sure you know who all of them are)

I am at a loss to see who you are pleasing. You certainly are fixated on Roy, your friends in Lin$ux certainly like trying to make trouble (and then bragging about it)

Maybe your fixation on Roy and your incorrect and wrong posts serve to please yourselves. Thats fine.

I will be keeping an eye on your posts since you cannot be trusted to post the truth on your own, you need supervision.

Thanks for saying sorry though.

Quote "By the way, I actually turned off trackbacks and it's obvious one was not generated to your blog... so how do you find these posts?"

LOL. Very simply...Im sorry if you didn't want me to find it. Unfortunately for you I actually do know my subjects, Elland Road claims he has a "secret contact" lol (grow up Mr Road)....if he or you knew anything about how the subjects of the people you attack and not simply how to troll, you wouldn't need to ask..

Take care, as always you are welcome on blog anytime.

Goblin.

Elland Road said...

Like I said Goblin boy, if you can insinuate that Verofakto & I are the same person, which we are not, I can do the same with you and any other BoycottBoy.

schestowitz claims to have secret contacts, why can't I?

openbytes said...

"like I said Goblin boy"

Nice. Is that another attempt at dishonest representation of me or it that simply an insult?
LOL.

Quote "schestowitz claims to have secret contacts, why can't I?"

Because like him or loath him, Roy has built up a reputation and a massive hit of daily readers. Whether you agree with him or not you have to agree that Roy Schestowitz is a well known name in the FOSS world. Do you even know how many hits his site receives?

For someone like Roy to have contacts is no surprise. For you and you 10 or so followers on twiter and the odd comment on allegedly someone elses blog, its just silly. Its immature and since I know the truth about Homer and Astralknight (in that I am not them) its a complete insult to my intelligence.

Quote "BoycottBoy."
And we go around in circles dont we? If we have established from the owner of this blogs appology to me that I didn't defend Roy. If we can also agree that my views are vastly different to roy in about 90% of IT related topics and if you check my blog and BN IRC/site you will see I started my blog way before any contact with Roy...I fail to see why you feel the need to call me boycott boy when all I do is chat in the BN room with a few people I regard as online friends.

Ive already asked you to check the logs and see that most of the time we talk about non IT or relevant subjects. The BN chatroom is just that. A chat room. Today for example, one of the topics I brought up was the Bagdad Battery..BN chat room is not an exclusive club/group or anything else....its a place to chat. Check the logs, see for yourself.

Elland Road said...

Yes, schestowitz is well known. In his case, that's not a good thing. There are more people that know him as a hatemonger and hypocrite than there are people that think he's a good guy. I don't know how many hits he gets on his site. Though I wonder how many of them are people just checking out the latest lies and fabrications. I wonder how many hits BN would lose if those people would stop going to it.

I called you BoycottBoy because of your sad, pathetic attempts to put me down (readerbase, twitter followers, etc.), and the fact that you're defending Roy.

You say I need to "grow up" because I said I have "secrets contacts". You don't realize I was making fun of schestowitz when I said that. He claims all the time to have all these different contacts. Do you actually think he has "secret contacts"? He once claimed some guy he talked to had MI-5 connections. Do you believe that too? What about the claim that Microsoft shareholders contacted for help in getting rid of Ballmer? I would really love to know what you think about that one.

You say you know the truth about homer and astralknight (that you're not them) and it's an insult to your intelligence that I suggest that you are them. What about you? You insulted my intelligence first by implying (with no proof whatsoever) that me and Verofakto were the same person. I know the truth about Verofakto (in that I am not him). See, I can do it too.

BN IRC is a chat room that you'll get kicked out of if you don't agree with everything schestowitz says. That's a fact.


(by the way if you need help on what comes next, this is the part where you post a series of comments in an attempt to lure me back) ----see what I did there?

openbytes said...

Quote "I called you BoycottBoy because of your sad, pathetic attempts to put me down (readerbase, twitter followers, etc.), and the fact that you're defending Roy."

Come on this is silly. I came here to defend myself not Roy. Check back if you have forgotten. I can't answer for Roy and wonder why you keep mentioning him.

I don't poke fun at YOUR reader base since I thought you said that you are not the same person as this blogger.

What I said was:

"For you and you 10 or so followers on twiter and the odd comment on allegedly someone elses blog"

See?

Quote "Do you actually think he has "secret contacts"?"

Im disappointed that you haven't done your research properly on the person you seem to love to talk about. His contacts have publically come forward. Check BN history.

Quote " He once claimed some guy he talked to had MI-5 connections. Do you believe that too?"

I would have to see a link to make a proper comment. In respect of Roy, I believe he would have had someone claiming that (he does not need to make something like that up) although the source of the MI5 claim I'd say are telling lies. Thats my opinion.

Quote "ou insulted my intelligence first by implying (with no proof whatsoever) that me and Verofakto were the same person. I know the truth about Verofakto (in that I am not him)."

Please think about your arguments properly. I suggested it, I did not state it as a fact, I said it didn't matter and I have accepted (partly) what was said. The reason you insult my intelligence is that I know if I am Homer or Astralknight so your comment about your secret contact was all the more silly to me. I don't need to prove anything so it was a personal opinion based on the fact that I do know the truth.

Quote "BN IRC is a chat room that you'll get kicked out of if you don't agree with everything schestowitz says. That's a fact."

Liar. Check todays log, Ive disagreed with Roy in the last 30 minutes. What people get banned for is troublemaking, racism or homophobia or anything else which could be personally offensive to others. Not disagreement. Check out the IRC logs and quote me anyone who has been banned for a different opinion. Check the logs.

Quote "see what I did there?"

No and again you didn't do anything. I returned because the blog creator issued an appology to me it was polite to accept and to speak directly to them (instead of you). We are now on a different topic to the original one I complained about. If you don't want to continue this new topic about "secret contacts" and BN IRC chat and you putting questions to me on Roys opinion, fine.

Quote "What about the claim that Microsoft shareholders contacted for help in getting rid of Ballmer?"

I can neither prove nor disprove that comment. You've shifted the goalposts slightly though as I have repeatedly said I do not represent Roy so its not fair I answer (I thought the discussion was on me agreeing or not with Roys opinion). Personal feeling? Someone was winding him up. Having looked an alleged poll I think it stated that Ballmers popularity was a 60/40 split with shareholders and I think that if such a plan was being hatched there would be far cleverer ways of doing it..i,e leaked meeting recordings etc...

Goblin.

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